1 00:00:08,530 --> 00:00:17,140 [Music] 2 00:00:25,429 --> 00:00:20,630 welcome to shattered reality with your 3 00:00:28,460 --> 00:00:25,439 hosts Kate Valentine and furs prepare to 4 00:00:35,229 --> 00:00:28,470 head of paradigms shifted in the truths 5 00:00:43,220 --> 00:00:39,230 hello listeners this is for Russia for 6 00:00:47,090 --> 00:00:43,230 shattered reality podcast we are here on 7 00:00:52,990 --> 00:00:47,100 a solemn occasion which is the 8 00:00:58,819 --> 00:00:53,000 anniversary of 9/11 it is September 11th 9 00:01:04,160 --> 00:00:58,829 2018 and it is a gain a Tuesday 10 00:01:11,209 --> 00:01:04,170 just like the day in 2001 when the 11 00:01:15,050 --> 00:01:11,219 horrific incidents rained down upon New 12 00:01:19,639 --> 00:01:15,060 York City and Washington and a field 13 00:01:22,849 --> 00:01:19,649 somewhere in Pennsylvania so we are 14 00:01:25,969 --> 00:01:22,859 going to do some talking about 9/11 at 15 00:01:32,719 --> 00:01:25,979 the end of our show but to start out 16 00:01:35,569 --> 00:01:32,729 with we have a wonderful author to talk 17 00:01:39,230 --> 00:01:35,579 with today but I wanted to say first 18 00:01:45,709 --> 00:01:39,240 that unfortunately due to unforeseen 19 00:01:49,099 --> 00:01:45,719 circumstances my co-host and partner in 20 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:49,109 crime here Kate Valentine is not here 21 00:01:54,679 --> 00:01:52,170 due to unforeseen circumstances beyond 22 00:01:58,550 --> 00:01:54,689 her control she would have have loved to 23 00:02:02,959 --> 00:01:58,560 speak to our guests as I hope I will too 24 00:02:06,649 --> 00:02:02,969 and our guest today has a book out a new 25 00:02:09,529 --> 00:02:06,659 book called time loops he is also the 26 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:09,539 author of a very interesting blog called 27 00:02:16,850 --> 00:02:13,530 the nightshirt and let's welcome eric 28 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:16,860 worre go to shattered reality hi Eric 29 00:02:19,430 --> 00:02:19,170 how you doing today I peruse I'm doing 30 00:02:22,130 --> 00:02:19,440 great 31 00:02:26,660 --> 00:02:22,140 good so you're speaking to us from 32 00:02:29,450 --> 00:02:26,670 Denver Colorado avoiding any chance of 33 00:02:31,640 --> 00:02:29,460 getting hit with a hurricane here on the 34 00:02:34,670 --> 00:02:31,650 East Coast which looks like is coming 35 00:02:37,460 --> 00:02:34,680 down these coasts a bit from the New 36 00:02:39,500 --> 00:02:37,470 York New Jersey metropolitan area it's 37 00:02:42,500 --> 00:02:39,510 gonna hit somewhere in North Carolina 38 00:02:45,860 --> 00:02:42,510 they tell us yes doesn't look good yeah 39 00:02:47,870 --> 00:02:45,870 I live in Washington DC but saving some 40 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:47,880 couple weeks went on mom's house here 41 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:50,130 and the foothills outside of Denver it's 42 00:02:56,690 --> 00:02:53,730 lovely here so happy that I'll be 43 00:02:58,960 --> 00:02:56,700 missing all the bad weather yes I'm a 44 00:03:01,310 --> 00:02:58,970 little bit I'm a little bit envious of 45 00:03:02,950 --> 00:03:01,320 people in places where the weather is 46 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:02,960 good because we've had nothing but 47 00:03:12,590 --> 00:03:08,210 constant rain here in the metro area so 48 00:03:15,650 --> 00:03:12,600 you have had a very very interesting 49 00:03:20,690 --> 00:03:15,660 blog for a while call the nightshirt and 50 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:20,700 I have read a number of the blog posts 51 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:23,850 that you have written but now you have 52 00:03:31,550 --> 00:03:27,410 kind of put all your knowledge together 53 00:03:34,820 --> 00:03:31,560 into this book called time loops now I 54 00:03:37,940 --> 00:03:34,830 am I I apologize that I did not mention 55 00:03:42,260 --> 00:03:37,950 to start off with that you have a PhD in 56 00:03:45,380 --> 00:03:42,270 anthropology from Emory University is 57 00:03:49,690 --> 00:03:45,390 that correct that's correct yes okay and 58 00:03:53,710 --> 00:03:49,700 I find it interesting that you in 59 00:03:57,500 --> 00:03:53,720 writing about an ESP phenomena called 60 00:04:02,690 --> 00:03:57,510 precognition that you have taken more 61 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:02,700 physics approach to the subject well you 62 00:04:05,990 --> 00:04:04,050 know if you're gonna write about this 63 00:04:10,130 --> 00:04:06,000 subject you kinda have to deal with the 64 00:04:12,500 --> 00:04:10,140 physics honestly the physics part of the 65 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:12,510 book which i think is probably the most 66 00:04:16,430 --> 00:04:14,370 challenging part of the book and I hope 67 00:04:17,810 --> 00:04:16,440 people you know if they find it too 68 00:04:20,090 --> 00:04:17,820 difficult will just sort of skip past 69 00:04:21,740 --> 00:04:20,100 those chapters because because it's it's 70 00:04:25,700 --> 00:04:21,750 tough it's tough stuff and it's 71 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:25,710 certainly not my you know what I feel 72 00:04:29,210 --> 00:04:27,210 most comfortable with but I've spent a 73 00:04:30,610 --> 00:04:29,220 last few years you know really trying to 74 00:04:33,129 --> 00:04:30,620 delve into it and 75 00:04:36,159 --> 00:04:33,139 and understand it too at least a degree 76 00:04:38,140 --> 00:04:36,169 you know I'm never to read all those 77 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:38,150 equations and everything but well does 78 00:04:43,060 --> 00:04:40,250 anybody totally understand this even 79 00:04:44,950 --> 00:04:43,070 before studying it isn't that part of it 80 00:04:46,840 --> 00:04:44,960 well that's just it and that's actually 81 00:04:49,030 --> 00:04:46,850 what's so fascinating about it the more 82 00:04:51,210 --> 00:04:49,040 you get into quantum physics 83 00:04:56,280 --> 00:04:51,220 specifically you realize well there 84 00:04:59,890 --> 00:04:56,290 there are multiple interpretations of 85 00:05:03,370 --> 00:04:59,900 the what's observed in laboratories and 86 00:05:07,439 --> 00:05:03,380 these interpretations are vastly at odds 87 00:05:11,500 --> 00:05:07,449 with each other so no one understands it 88 00:05:15,370 --> 00:05:11,510 really and they all disagree wildly 89 00:05:19,510 --> 00:05:15,380 about what it means and that to me is 90 00:05:21,909 --> 00:05:19,520 fascinating I'm sort of where I come 91 00:05:23,350 --> 00:05:21,919 from as an answer I'm not an answer I 92 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:23,360 should say I'd I don't work as an 93 00:05:28,150 --> 00:05:26,090 anthropologist I left academia the 94 00:05:32,379 --> 00:05:28,160 moment I got my PhD they haven't really 95 00:05:34,540 --> 00:05:32,389 looked back but I my interest really is 96 00:05:37,450 --> 00:05:34,550 in kind of knowledge and how knowledge 97 00:05:39,790 --> 00:05:37,460 evolves and and both including 98 00:05:42,990 --> 00:05:39,800 scientific knowledge but also all other 99 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:43,000 sort of domains of knowledge that are 100 00:05:48,909 --> 00:05:45,289 that are sort of part of the larger 101 00:05:50,830 --> 00:05:48,919 knowledge ecosystem and how they all fit 102 00:05:52,779 --> 00:05:50,840 together and how science works and how 103 00:05:56,950 --> 00:05:52,789 science progresses and so forth and I 104 00:05:59,159 --> 00:05:56,960 think that's been kind of my maybe sort 105 00:06:03,100 --> 00:05:59,169 of a little bit unique 106 00:06:05,950 --> 00:06:03,110 angle on paranormal subjects that I 107 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:05,960 write about on my blog I'm kind of 108 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:09,650 trying to trying to look at look at the 109 00:06:14,890 --> 00:06:12,410 paranormal and at at parapsychology and 110 00:06:17,650 --> 00:06:14,900 ufology and all that as kind of these 111 00:06:20,469 --> 00:06:17,660 are domains of knowledge and they exist 112 00:06:24,510 --> 00:06:20,479 they exist in tension with other domains 113 00:06:30,659 --> 00:06:24,520 of knowledge obviously and so that that 114 00:06:39,430 --> 00:06:34,270 so I was going to say perhaps you would 115 00:06:43,850 --> 00:06:39,440 speak to exactly your definition of 116 00:06:46,130 --> 00:06:43,860 precognition and Retro causation 117 00:06:48,650 --> 00:06:46,140 right for the lay man because not 118 00:06:57,650 --> 00:06:48,660 everybody here has a PhD in physics 119 00:07:01,880 --> 00:06:57,660 including moi okay let's precognition is 120 00:07:04,340 --> 00:07:01,890 sort of an umbrella term that that means 121 00:07:07,490 --> 00:07:04,350 pretty much any kind of knowing the 122 00:07:09,410 --> 00:07:07,500 future or seeing the future or feeling 123 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:09,420 the future or whatever being influenced 124 00:07:17,150 --> 00:07:12,570 by the future in some way that goes 125 00:07:20,420 --> 00:07:17,160 outside the scope of normal perception 126 00:07:22,820 --> 00:07:20,430 or inference so you know somehow somehow 127 00:07:25,090 --> 00:07:22,830 being able to get insight into an a 128 00:07:28,250 --> 00:07:25,100 future event or a future experience 129 00:07:30,710 --> 00:07:28,260 beyond what would be possible you know 130 00:07:33,530 --> 00:07:30,720 via ordinary prediction you know 131 00:07:36,740 --> 00:07:33,540 ordinary in inference about the future 132 00:07:38,630 --> 00:07:36,750 now it's under that umbrella term there 133 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:38,640 are a number of more specific terms that 134 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:41,370 have have uni have their own 135 00:07:45,170 --> 00:07:43,530 connotations like people are are 136 00:07:48,770 --> 00:07:45,180 generally familiar with the term 137 00:07:52,310 --> 00:07:48,780 premonition that might be that typically 138 00:07:53,690 --> 00:07:52,320 sort of connotes something bad happening 139 00:07:55,670 --> 00:07:53,700 in the future and getting it having a 140 00:07:59,560 --> 00:07:55,680 green or a vision or something that that 141 00:08:02,420 --> 00:07:59,570 seems to foretell something traumatic 142 00:08:05,990 --> 00:08:02,430 ahead in time then there's a term 143 00:08:10,780 --> 00:08:06,000 presentiment which is a a term that 144 00:08:15,650 --> 00:08:14,240 sensations or emotions or or somehow 145 00:08:18,170 --> 00:08:15,660 being influenced by the future outside 146 00:08:20,810 --> 00:08:18,180 of conscious awareness there are a 147 00:08:23,330 --> 00:08:20,820 number of very interesting laboratory 148 00:08:24,860 --> 00:08:23,340 experiments in presentiment over the 149 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:24,870 last couple of decades and I read about 150 00:08:30,710 --> 00:08:27,890 those in my book yes the Daryl BEM 151 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:30,720 exercises particularly right yes 152 00:08:35,390 --> 00:08:33,810 especially and and Dean Radin has done 153 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:35,400 some marvelous stuff you know there's 154 00:08:38,900 --> 00:08:37,770 been a number of a number of 155 00:08:40,810 --> 00:08:38,910 experimenters doing really interesting 156 00:08:45,380 --> 00:08:40,820 work in that area 157 00:08:50,150 --> 00:08:45,390 now retro causation is a more physics 158 00:08:53,210 --> 00:08:50,160 term which means any sort of way in 159 00:08:55,790 --> 00:08:53,220 which the future influences the past or 160 00:08:57,530 --> 00:08:55,800 in which or any kind of situation where 161 00:09:07,490 --> 00:08:57,540 an effect 162 00:09:09,499 --> 00:09:07,500 precedes its cause in time so yeah well 163 00:09:12,980 --> 00:09:09,509 like effects preceding their causes and 164 00:09:16,370 --> 00:09:12,990 this I argue and many people argue is 165 00:09:19,269 --> 00:09:16,380 really the necessary sort of condition 166 00:09:21,590 --> 00:09:19,279 for something like precognition to exist 167 00:09:24,259 --> 00:09:21,600 yeah and I found it very very 168 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:24,269 interesting because I think that most 169 00:09:29,749 --> 00:09:26,730 people who probably listen to this 170 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:29,759 podcast know about the double-slit 171 00:09:35,439 --> 00:09:32,850 experiments in physics and the particles 172 00:09:39,319 --> 00:09:35,449 going through one slit or the other and 173 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:39,329 that and you can't measure where it is 174 00:09:44,689 --> 00:09:41,850 if you want to measure the speed or some 175 00:09:46,850 --> 00:09:44,699 some such some such thing like that 176 00:09:50,689 --> 00:09:46,860 but this kind of takes care of that 177 00:09:52,939 --> 00:09:50,699 problem in the double slit experiment 178 00:10:02,139 --> 00:09:52,949 you do you want to speak to that in a 179 00:10:11,030 --> 00:10:07,460 question well I'm saying that the theory 180 00:10:17,420 --> 00:10:11,040 that you have expounded in your book 181 00:10:21,590 --> 00:10:17,430 about retro causation it takes care of 182 00:10:26,660 --> 00:10:21,600 the problems with the double slit 183 00:10:30,139 --> 00:10:26,670 experiment takes it how can i how can i 184 00:10:34,180 --> 00:10:30,149 express potential right potentially it 185 00:10:36,769 --> 00:10:34,190 does I there there's a school of thought 186 00:10:42,590 --> 00:10:36,779 in physics and this is the one that I 187 00:10:46,300 --> 00:10:42,600 sort of focused in on that I'm sorry I'm 188 00:10:52,569 --> 00:10:46,310 getting a text message after silence 189 00:10:55,670 --> 00:10:52,579 okay that forget happens oh yeah that 190 00:11:00,790 --> 00:10:55,680 what has always been seen in these 191 00:11:04,819 --> 00:11:00,800 experiments as randomness okay quantum 192 00:11:08,420 --> 00:11:04,829 randomness the for instance the the 193 00:11:12,199 --> 00:11:08,430 double slit experiment is he is 194 00:11:14,660 --> 00:11:12,209 supposedly an effect of unpredictable 195 00:11:17,380 --> 00:11:14,670 behavior of light waves interfering with 196 00:11:20,540 --> 00:11:17,390 each other the wavefunction photons 197 00:11:24,079 --> 00:11:20,550 photons that are behave as waves until 198 00:11:28,060 --> 00:11:24,089 you observe them well there's another 199 00:11:31,460 --> 00:11:28,070 way of looking at this that instead of a 200 00:11:34,490 --> 00:11:31,470 matter behaving you know Waverley until 201 00:11:36,110 --> 00:11:34,500 you observe it which is the usual way 202 00:11:38,780 --> 00:11:36,120 it's expressed there's another way of 203 00:11:42,340 --> 00:11:38,790 looking at it that that it's that final 204 00:11:44,990 --> 00:11:42,350 measurement is actually exerting a cause 205 00:11:48,980 --> 00:11:45,000 backwards it's actually causing the 206 00:11:52,130 --> 00:11:48,990 previous behavior of that photon and so 207 00:11:53,990 --> 00:11:52,140 on back through time so that what you're 208 00:11:56,509 --> 00:11:54,000 really observing in these experiments 209 00:11:58,759 --> 00:11:56,519 like the double slit is the influence of 210 00:12:03,740 --> 00:11:58,769 your final measurement on the previous 211 00:12:06,519 --> 00:12:03,750 behavior of the light beam okay and that 212 00:12:11,990 --> 00:12:06,529 that is sort of the the perspective that 213 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:12,000 sort of makes precognition possible and 214 00:12:21,829 --> 00:12:16,770 that is sort of what is happening on a 215 00:12:26,030 --> 00:12:21,839 sub molecular level and then we can 216 00:12:29,750 --> 00:12:26,040 extrapolate outwards into you know the 217 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:29,760 human world of the of this of this size 218 00:12:36,170 --> 00:12:33,450 ratio that's what I don't know if that's 219 00:12:42,550 --> 00:12:36,180 follow up all right the idea would be 220 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:42,560 that on a molecular level this is 221 00:12:46,130 --> 00:12:44,730 there's a current on molecular level 222 00:12:48,860 --> 00:12:46,140 under the brain somehow I was able to 223 00:12:53,090 --> 00:12:48,870 scale up these effects quantum biology 224 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:53,100 is sort of a new frontier in science 225 00:12:59,090 --> 00:12:56,250 just really literally in the last decade 226 00:13:01,490 --> 00:12:59,100 it's been speculated about for half a 227 00:13:04,250 --> 00:13:01,500 century but really it's just in the last 228 00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:04,260 a little more than a decade that that 229 00:13:09,069 --> 00:13:06,570 that biologists and physicists have 230 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:09,079 actually discovered quantum effects 231 00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:13,170 operating in life processes like 232 00:13:19,819 --> 00:13:15,570 photosynthesis for instance and bird 233 00:13:22,430 --> 00:13:19,829 navigation yes and you know this this is 234 00:13:24,590 --> 00:13:22,440 going to be a big booming field you can 235 00:13:26,829 --> 00:13:24,600 bet in the next couple decades 236 00:13:30,889 --> 00:13:26,839 you have you have mentioned the 237 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:30,899 microtubules inside inside the synapses 238 00:13:40,189 --> 00:13:34,970 of the brain and in the photosynthesis 239 00:13:46,249 --> 00:13:40,199 some mysterious ways that matter goes 240 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:46,259 past barriers I believe right yeah the 241 00:13:51,129 --> 00:13:49,050 quanta quantum tunneling is yes sort of 242 00:13:56,110 --> 00:13:51,139 the basis of photosynthesis it turns out 243 00:13:58,519 --> 00:13:56,120 it's that is when a photon strikes 244 00:14:00,799 --> 00:13:58,529 molecule inside a plant cell that 245 00:14:03,739 --> 00:14:00,809 releases an electron and the electron is 246 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:03,749 able to find the fastest path possible 247 00:14:11,509 --> 00:14:06,689 to the part of the plant cell that uses 248 00:14:13,460 --> 00:14:11,519 that energy and converts it and but one 249 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:13,470 way of another way of looking at it is 250 00:14:19,189 --> 00:14:16,410 that is that the photon already knows 251 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:19,199 where it's going its destination has 252 00:14:24,079 --> 00:14:21,930 already influenced the path of that of 253 00:14:26,660 --> 00:14:24,089 that I'm sorry of that electron as it 254 00:14:30,980 --> 00:14:26,670 passes through the plant cell and that 255 00:14:34,340 --> 00:14:30,990 this kind of effect is operating in 256 00:14:39,799 --> 00:14:34,350 inside microtubules and neurons possibly 257 00:14:41,569 --> 00:14:39,809 in all kinds of micro level molecular 258 00:14:43,610 --> 00:14:41,579 processes not only in the brain but 259 00:14:46,970 --> 00:14:43,620 throughout throughout the body does this 260 00:14:51,110 --> 00:14:46,980 imply consciousness on the part of these 261 00:14:55,129 --> 00:14:51,120 very tiny particles no no it doesn't it 262 00:15:00,650 --> 00:14:55,139 it simply it implies teleology which is 263 00:15:02,809 --> 00:15:00,660 the the the the the idea that the ends 264 00:15:05,239 --> 00:15:02,819 sort of influence things that happen 265 00:15:07,249 --> 00:15:05,249 before them that's why you have to start 266 00:15:11,090 --> 00:15:07,259 speaking of causality going in both 267 00:15:13,369 --> 00:15:11,100 directions right and yeah it doesn't it 268 00:15:15,739 --> 00:15:13,379 looks very much as though these 269 00:15:17,809 --> 00:15:15,749 particles are conscious but another way 270 00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:17,819 of looking at it is simply that that 271 00:15:23,389 --> 00:15:19,920 things are determined everything that 272 00:15:25,189 --> 00:15:23,399 happens is determined both by efficient 273 00:15:27,019 --> 00:15:25,199 causation which is the kind of causation 274 00:15:28,579 --> 00:15:27,029 we're used to dealing with in everyday 275 00:15:32,900 --> 00:15:28,589 life you know sort of billiard balls 276 00:15:35,929 --> 00:15:32,910 hitting each other but that that random 277 00:15:37,950 --> 00:15:35,939 component to those billiard balls you 278 00:15:40,350 --> 00:15:37,960 know hitting each other the 279 00:15:42,330 --> 00:15:40,360 what what quantum physicists have always 280 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:42,340 sort of lumped under the rubric of 281 00:15:46,740 --> 00:15:44,530 uncertainty the fact that you can't 282 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:46,750 predict how any given particle is going 283 00:15:50,370 --> 00:15:48,370 to behave until you measure it 284 00:15:53,130 --> 00:15:50,380 well that that random component may 285 00:15:55,230 --> 00:15:53,140 really reflect retro causal influence 286 00:15:58,740 --> 00:15:55,240 that random component may really be the 287 00:16:00,360 --> 00:15:58,750 influence of the future on the past and 288 00:16:02,070 --> 00:16:00,370 that we have and it's very difficult to 289 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:02,080 measure that because when you make a 290 00:16:06,330 --> 00:16:04,570 measurement you're influencing what 291 00:16:09,660 --> 00:16:06,340 you're measuring and so it's very hard 292 00:16:12,450 --> 00:16:09,670 to tease apart what is an effect of what 293 00:16:15,420 --> 00:16:12,460 you've done versus what the future is 294 00:16:17,940 --> 00:16:15,430 doing but there are increasingly 295 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:17,950 sophisticated quantum measurement tools 296 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:21,570 that are enabling people to discern 297 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:25,810 these these retro causal influences and 298 00:16:29,970 --> 00:16:28,090 so this is it's not a universally 299 00:16:32,370 --> 00:16:29,980 accepted paradigm in physics like I said 300 00:16:34,410 --> 00:16:32,380 quite a business's disagree wildly about 301 00:16:38,460 --> 00:16:34,420 how to interpret you know the double 302 00:16:40,230 --> 00:16:38,470 slit experiment and so on but one one 303 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:40,240 very interesting interpretation that's 304 00:16:46,770 --> 00:16:43,450 gaining ground is that is this retro 305 00:16:48,390 --> 00:16:46,780 causal interpretation and if you read 306 00:16:50,460 --> 00:16:48,400 the science news you know every month 307 00:16:53,070 --> 00:16:50,470 there's a new article showing how 308 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:53,080 quantum systems you know how like 309 00:16:59,450 --> 00:16:55,930 quantum computers can scramble you know 310 00:17:02,910 --> 00:16:59,460 cause and effect and how you know 311 00:17:05,630 --> 00:17:02,920 they're retro causation is becoming a 312 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:05,640 big thing well it's certainly the whole 313 00:17:13,829 --> 00:17:09,610 field of quantum computing is something 314 00:17:16,350 --> 00:17:13,839 that I think is going to be really big 315 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:16,360 in our immediate future I think it's 316 00:17:21,360 --> 00:17:18,850 coming it's coming into existence now 317 00:17:24,270 --> 00:17:21,370 it's beginning to be used and I am 318 00:17:27,510 --> 00:17:24,280 certainly not an expert or even very 319 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:27,520 conversant on quantum computer but I've 320 00:17:34,020 --> 00:17:30,490 read quite a bit about it and it looks 321 00:17:37,650 --> 00:17:34,030 like it has great potential but let's 322 00:17:40,820 --> 00:17:37,660 for most of our listeners we need to 323 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:40,830 bring it into the human realm so 324 00:17:46,950 --> 00:17:44,050 therefore I would ask you if you are 325 00:17:49,020 --> 00:17:46,960 acquainted with one Marty Rosenblatt who 326 00:17:50,290 --> 00:17:49,030 was a guest on shattered reality a 327 00:17:55,630 --> 00:17:50,300 something 328 00:17:58,390 --> 00:17:55,640 okay Marty Rosenblatt is a person who 329 00:18:00,100 --> 00:17:58,400 studies remote viewing he is fairly 330 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:00,110 prominent in the remote viewing 331 00:18:05,470 --> 00:18:03,530 community and unlike many of the remote 332 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:05,480 viewers he's not a former government 333 00:18:12,850 --> 00:18:09,610 remote viewers so there is no aspect of 334 00:18:15,190 --> 00:18:12,860 military or defense agencies or anything 335 00:18:23,730 --> 00:18:15,200 like that involved with Marty that I 336 00:18:29,250 --> 00:18:23,740 know of anyway in any case he runs as an 337 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:29,260 ARV ap P which is applied applied 338 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:33,530 precognition project ARV is associative 339 00:18:40,350 --> 00:18:36,170 remote viewing and I you know I belong 340 00:18:45,570 --> 00:18:40,360 to that group and what we do is just 341 00:18:50,190 --> 00:18:45,580 really intimately involved with 342 00:18:54,310 --> 00:18:50,200 precognition and Retro causation because 343 00:18:56,950 --> 00:18:54,320 we do a remote viewing session where we 344 00:18:58,720 --> 00:18:56,960 only have six numbers to go on the six 345 00:19:01,510 --> 00:18:58,730 numbers correspond to nothing in 346 00:19:03,850 --> 00:19:01,520 particular in the real world and we take 347 00:19:08,170 --> 00:19:03,860 whatever amount of time it is to make a 348 00:19:11,500 --> 00:19:08,180 drawing and then two photos are revealed 349 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:11,510 to those folks who submit a drawing and 350 00:19:15,580 --> 00:19:13,970 maybe some words you know you get what 351 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:15,590 do you smell what do you feel what do 352 00:19:22,630 --> 00:19:18,530 you taste what does it look like okay 353 00:19:24,940 --> 00:19:22,640 and you draw that up and after you draw 354 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:24,950 that up you get to see two photographs 355 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:29,650 and you decide if your drawing 356 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:32,090 corresponds to either of those two 357 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:35,930 photographs and then you pick that 358 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:37,730 photograph and you sort of score your 359 00:19:43,750 --> 00:19:40,970 your your drawing like you're drawing 360 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:43,760 might have one element of photograph be 361 00:19:49,390 --> 00:19:47,210 but ten elements of photograph a so then 362 00:19:52,450 --> 00:19:49,400 you give yourself a score and you say 363 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:52,460 I'm gonna go with photograph a then it 364 00:19:58,120 --> 00:19:55,330 is assigned to a sports betting 365 00:20:02,040 --> 00:19:58,130 situation of over/under are you familiar 366 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:04,519 neither did I 367 00:20:10,169 --> 00:20:07,690 sports have absolutely no interest to me 368 00:20:15,479 --> 00:20:10,179 I know it sounds very closed-minded but 369 00:20:17,519 --> 00:20:15,489 uh you know football soccer hockey I 370 00:20:19,859 --> 00:20:17,529 don't care if they never do it again 371 00:20:23,329 --> 00:20:19,869 baseball and basketball are kind of nice 372 00:20:28,979 --> 00:20:23,339 I suppose if you like that stuff I don't 373 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:28,989 but over/under is basically it's a 374 00:20:34,019 --> 00:20:31,570 number that the bookies come up with the 375 00:20:36,209 --> 00:20:34,029 people who make the odds and in a 376 00:20:40,199 --> 00:20:36,219 baseball game it turns out to be the 377 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:40,209 total numbers scored this total number 378 00:20:44,549 --> 00:20:42,129 of runs scored in the game what's 379 00:20:48,269 --> 00:20:44,559 expected now that's usually between like 380 00:20:50,909 --> 00:20:48,279 say seven and ten and the the bookies 381 00:20:53,069 --> 00:20:50,919 put up the odds now when we make these 382 00:20:56,099 --> 00:20:53,079 drawings we have no idea what game it's 383 00:20:58,049 --> 00:20:56,109 involving if it's football or or 384 00:21:01,769 --> 00:20:58,059 whatever is in season it's a major 385 00:21:04,169 --> 00:21:01,779 league sport and so one of the 386 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:04,179 photographs corresponds to over one of 387 00:21:12,779 --> 00:21:08,129 the photographs corresponds to under and 388 00:21:16,199 --> 00:21:12,789 so we get to bet on our the group what 389 00:21:19,349 --> 00:21:16,209 the the group has decided so if there 390 00:21:23,729 --> 00:21:19,359 are ten people shall we say in a 391 00:21:26,579 --> 00:21:23,739 particular remote viewing group and it 392 00:21:28,649 --> 00:21:26,589 comes out that many more people voted 393 00:21:31,079 --> 00:21:28,659 for over and there's some kind of 394 00:21:33,269 --> 00:21:31,089 statistical way that's I'm not 395 00:21:35,430 --> 00:21:33,279 definitely not going into on the podcast 396 00:21:38,209 --> 00:21:35,440 because I couldn't speak to it that well 397 00:21:41,969 --> 00:21:38,219 to begin with but that picture a 398 00:21:44,419 --> 00:21:41,979 represents over and so the people who 399 00:21:48,649 --> 00:21:44,429 want to bet put their money on over and 400 00:21:53,099 --> 00:21:48,659 and they and they then win or lose and 401 00:21:57,029 --> 00:21:53,109 he's got very very very good odds coming 402 00:22:00,389 --> 00:21:57,039 back a lot of people are winning and it 403 00:22:02,159 --> 00:22:00,399 and how you're supposed to do it is 404 00:22:04,589 --> 00:22:02,169 you're supposed to add very happy be 405 00:22:08,779 --> 00:22:04,599 very pleased when you see the winning 406 00:22:11,729 --> 00:22:08,789 photograph and that's supposed to be 407 00:22:14,579 --> 00:22:11,739 excite you enough in the future that 408 00:22:17,270 --> 00:22:14,589 retro causally you'll have pick up the 409 00:22:20,210 --> 00:22:17,280 right stuff in the present exactly 410 00:22:22,190 --> 00:22:20,220 like yeah we'll go ahead I mean that's 411 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:22,200 that's a there's there's a school of 412 00:22:27,290 --> 00:22:25,530 thought that that is how all remote 413 00:22:30,260 --> 00:22:27,300 viewing may work that it's that you're 414 00:22:31,970 --> 00:22:30,270 actually pre cognizing the feedback 415 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:31,980 you're gonna get and your own excitement 416 00:22:36,650 --> 00:22:34,410 about the feedback it's a very 417 00:22:38,540 --> 00:22:36,660 interesting you know it's not it's not 418 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:38,550 the most mainstream interpretation of 419 00:22:41,300 --> 00:22:40,050 remote viewing but it's a very it's a 420 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:41,310 very interesting one and yes 421 00:22:45,290 --> 00:22:42,930 associative remote viewing is 422 00:22:49,340 --> 00:22:45,300 fascinating and you know has a lot of 423 00:22:50,870 --> 00:22:49,350 potential I think absolutely so I was 424 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:50,880 just trying to bring it bring 425 00:23:00,650 --> 00:22:57,090 retrocausality into the current human 426 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:00,660 scale and perhaps you could talk a 427 00:23:05,540 --> 00:23:03,090 little bit about something you mentioned 428 00:23:10,130 --> 00:23:05,550 frequently in the book which is a Dun 429 00:23:14,210 --> 00:23:10,140 dream D un NE referring to a gentleman 430 00:23:17,740 --> 00:23:14,220 named done yes John Wayne done 431 00:23:21,590 --> 00:23:17,750 JW done was an aeronautical engineer in 432 00:23:22,910 --> 00:23:21,600 about a century ago well around the turn 433 00:23:25,460 --> 00:23:22,920 of the around the turn of the century 434 00:23:28,550 --> 00:23:25,470 actually and about a century ago he 435 00:23:31,010 --> 00:23:28,560 published a book on his precognitive 436 00:23:36,020 --> 00:23:31,020 dreams he had experienced precognitive 437 00:23:37,490 --> 00:23:36,030 dreams all his life and well he he'd 438 00:23:38,510 --> 00:23:37,500 experienced these dreams he thought they 439 00:23:39,710 --> 00:23:38,520 were precognitives but you know he 440 00:23:41,510 --> 00:23:39,720 couldn't make sense of them and he was 441 00:23:43,580 --> 00:23:41,520 an engineer it was very kind of rigorous 442 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:43,590 and his thinking and he wanted to figure 443 00:23:47,750 --> 00:23:45,090 out what was going on and so he realized 444 00:23:49,820 --> 00:23:47,760 he needed to actually record them and 445 00:23:53,090 --> 00:23:49,830 kind of be scientific about it now it's 446 00:23:55,250 --> 00:23:53,100 not his investigation was not anything 447 00:23:57,290 --> 00:23:55,260 that a hard-headed scientist would 448 00:23:58,760 --> 00:23:57,300 probably you know consider valid because 449 00:24:00,290 --> 00:23:58,770 you know when you're you're recording 450 00:24:01,940 --> 00:24:00,300 your own dreams interpreting your own 451 00:24:04,250 --> 00:24:01,950 dreams you know there's a lot of 452 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:04,260 subjective bias there but nevertheless 453 00:24:10,670 --> 00:24:07,290 he he you know recorded you know quite a 454 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:10,680 large number of dreams that correspond 455 00:24:16,850 --> 00:24:14,610 to X two learning experiences generally 456 00:24:19,910 --> 00:24:16,860 or just very exciting experiences in his 457 00:24:21,980 --> 00:24:19,920 life typically within often within a few 458 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:21,990 days not always sometimes there was a 459 00:24:27,050 --> 00:24:24,450 longer time delay but often it was a few 460 00:24:29,810 --> 00:24:27,060 days later and often they were you know 461 00:24:30,630 --> 00:24:29,820 really hugely significant things they 462 00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:30,640 were often 463 00:24:35,330 --> 00:24:33,130 just news stories maybe they were news 464 00:24:40,020 --> 00:24:35,340 stories about some disaster or some 465 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:40,030 tragedy happening somewhere remotely or 466 00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:41,890 they were just exciting in some way or 467 00:24:47,510 --> 00:24:45,130 another and in any case he published a 468 00:24:50,580 --> 00:24:47,520 book in nineteen I guess it was 1927 469 00:24:54,330 --> 00:24:50,590 called an experiment with time and it's 470 00:24:58,560 --> 00:24:54,340 a classic in parapsychology and it's 471 00:25:03,060 --> 00:24:58,570 really a remarkable sort of study he had 472 00:25:05,430 --> 00:25:03,070 a very sort of forensic approach to this 473 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:05,440 I mean he really he really teased apart 474 00:25:12,030 --> 00:25:08,770 his dreams and and the events that they 475 00:25:14,730 --> 00:25:12,040 seemed to refer to and his great 476 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:14,740 discovery which I'm trying to return to 477 00:25:19,470 --> 00:25:17,050 in my book because I feel like it's it's 478 00:25:21,090 --> 00:25:19,480 it's an interpretation of these 479 00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:21,100 phenomena that has never really received 480 00:25:25,790 --> 00:25:24,130 enough attention his is his great 481 00:25:28,950 --> 00:25:25,800 discovery was that his dreams didn't 482 00:25:31,860 --> 00:25:28,960 refer to future events in objective 483 00:25:34,620 --> 00:25:31,870 reality they referred to his own 484 00:25:36,630 --> 00:25:34,630 learning about those events so let me 485 00:25:38,070 --> 00:25:36,640 give you an example his this is probably 486 00:25:42,390 --> 00:25:38,080 the most famous example it's often 487 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:42,400 quoted from his book but he he was do on 488 00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:46,690 maneuvers with the British Armed Forces 489 00:25:54,300 --> 00:25:50,370 and in in South Africa and I think 1900 490 00:25:57,570 --> 00:25:54,310 and he was in camped out with his his 491 00:26:02,430 --> 00:25:57,580 regiment and he had a dream about being 492 00:26:06,060 --> 00:26:02,440 on a an island volcanic island it was 493 00:26:07,950 --> 00:26:06,070 about to blow and he was then trying to 494 00:26:10,590 --> 00:26:07,960 convince the French authorities of this 495 00:26:12,450 --> 00:26:10,600 island that there was this volcano was 496 00:26:16,290 --> 00:26:12,460 about to blow and the 4,000 people were 497 00:26:19,860 --> 00:26:16,300 thought to die and the number 4000 kept 498 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:19,870 coming up in the dream well he woke up 499 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:22,530 and I don't know how many days later the 500 00:26:28,470 --> 00:26:25,690 batch of mail arrived in their regiment 501 00:26:31,740 --> 00:26:28,480 and included in the mail was the latest 502 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:31,750 issue of the newspaper I forget what 503 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:33,730 newspaper it was and you know the 504 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:35,410 headline in the newspaper was that Mont 505 00:26:41,850 --> 00:26:38,170 Palais on the island of Martinique had 506 00:26:43,670 --> 00:26:41,860 exploded killing 40,000 people Wow yeah 507 00:26:47,450 --> 00:26:43,680 he was off by 508 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:47,460 who was off by one digit you know in his 509 00:26:53,300 --> 00:26:50,850 number but you know he thought well gee 510 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:53,310 that's pretty pretty amazing and that 511 00:26:56,210 --> 00:26:54,810 was one of the early dreams that really 512 00:27:01,070 --> 00:26:56,220 led him to kind of be more scientific 513 00:27:03,620 --> 00:27:01,080 about his his study but but the but the 514 00:27:05,990 --> 00:27:03,630 crucial fact in this dream is that the 515 00:27:07,850 --> 00:27:06,000 actual number killed was something he 516 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:07,860 turned out to be roughly 30-some 517 00:27:12,590 --> 00:27:10,050 thousand it was not related to the 518 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:12,600 either four thousand or 40,000 so it was 519 00:27:17,870 --> 00:27:14,850 clear that he was not Precog NIH's 520 00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:17,880 an actual volcanic eruption he was pre 521 00:27:21,170 --> 00:27:20,130 cognizing his own reading the newspaper 522 00:27:23,150 --> 00:27:21,180 yeah 523 00:27:24,590 --> 00:27:23,160 volcanic eruption and it's an exciting 524 00:27:28,490 --> 00:27:24,600 reading experience you know it's like 525 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:28,500 you know anything about any disaster is 526 00:27:36,950 --> 00:27:32,850 a you know a very it's it's emotionally 527 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:36,960 salient you know or it's unsettling is 528 00:27:42,500 --> 00:27:40,530 in various ways and he had other 529 00:27:44,660 --> 00:27:42,510 experiences that were similar where he 530 00:27:46,850 --> 00:27:44,670 was able to kind of tease apart what 531 00:27:49,130 --> 00:27:46,860 what it was he was actually Precog NIH's 532 00:27:52,940 --> 00:27:49,140 and in all cases he was not Precog NIH's 533 00:27:54,530 --> 00:27:52,950 in some event in some generalized future 534 00:27:56,570 --> 00:27:54,540 he wasn't Precog NIH's in the future 535 00:27:59,270 --> 00:27:56,580 wasn't seeing the future as we would 536 00:28:01,280 --> 00:27:59,280 typically put it he was he was getting a 537 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:01,290 preview some kind of mental preview of 538 00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:03,810 his own future reading experiences 539 00:28:10,850 --> 00:28:07,370 basically or or just a future 540 00:28:14,030 --> 00:28:10,860 emotionally emotional upheavals I guess 541 00:28:16,010 --> 00:28:14,040 and you know that you know right there 542 00:28:18,470 --> 00:28:16,020 would be almost a good segue to talking 543 00:28:22,130 --> 00:28:18,480 about 9/11 because you know of course 544 00:28:24,380 --> 00:28:22,140 many people had done dreams you know 545 00:28:27,590 --> 00:28:24,390 predicting 9/11 I myself had a done 546 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:27,600 dream reconnecting 9/11 tell us of your 547 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:30,570 done dream I sure could and it's not 548 00:28:38,540 --> 00:28:34,730 anything you know super spectacular and 549 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:38,550 and in my case it's not it wasn't a 550 00:28:44,780 --> 00:28:42,690 literal vision of planes crashing into 551 00:28:47,990 --> 00:28:44,790 towers anything like that but I did you 552 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:48,000 know I woke up on that morning about 553 00:28:52,610 --> 00:28:50,730 probably about 6:00 6:30 in the morning 554 00:28:55,610 --> 00:28:52,620 or 7:00 in the morning and as I always 555 00:28:57,330 --> 00:28:55,620 do I always try to write down just a few 556 00:28:59,370 --> 00:28:57,340 notes about the dreams there remember 557 00:29:01,500 --> 00:28:59,380 because generally later in the morning 558 00:29:05,550 --> 00:29:01,510 when I have more time I will type them 559 00:29:08,220 --> 00:29:05,560 up in a dream journal on my computer in 560 00:29:10,190 --> 00:29:08,230 this case I just jotted down notes that 561 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:10,200 I had driven I was driving down 562 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:14,050 neighborhood in my my home town when I 563 00:29:21,060 --> 00:29:17,410 was a child with Denver Colorado and I I 564 00:29:25,710 --> 00:29:21,070 drove past two identical perfectly 565 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:25,720 square mosques that had corrugated very 566 00:29:30,750 --> 00:29:28,570 bland corrugated facades in fact I think 567 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:30,760 the word I used was corduroy you know it 568 00:29:38,370 --> 00:29:32,410 just it just had this quarter this very 569 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:38,380 drab corduroy gray effect and and there 570 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:39,810 was that was really all I could remember 571 00:29:45,510 --> 00:29:43,330 of the dream and I didn't even go back 572 00:29:48,390 --> 00:29:45,520 to the dream until I think the next day 573 00:29:50,070 --> 00:29:48,400 you know I know I know I've noticed my 574 00:29:51,810 --> 00:29:50,080 notes about this dream I thought oh 575 00:29:55,170 --> 00:29:51,820 that's that's weird I've never in my 576 00:29:58,500 --> 00:29:55,180 life you know dreamed about mosques or 577 00:30:01,740 --> 00:29:58,510 anything to do with Islam or or whatever 578 00:30:04,770 --> 00:30:01,750 in fact I did later I did do a word 579 00:30:07,410 --> 00:30:04,780 check of my of my dream journals and 580 00:30:09,510 --> 00:30:07,420 found that there's nowhere else in my 25 581 00:30:11,790 --> 00:30:09,520 years of recording my dreams oh my 582 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:11,800 goodness if I have I dreamed about 583 00:30:16,830 --> 00:30:14,650 anything to do with Islam or or or 584 00:30:21,420 --> 00:30:16,840 Muslims or math or anything like that 585 00:30:23,910 --> 00:30:21,430 and one of the interesting details about 586 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:23,920 this dream is the location where this 587 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:26,410 occurred you know with any dream you 588 00:30:31,170 --> 00:30:28,690 need to sort of free-associate on all 589 00:30:33,150 --> 00:30:31,180 the elements of the dream everything you 590 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:33,160 notice in a dream it will be kind of 591 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:36,930 part of a larger rebus or hieroglyph and 592 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:39,610 the place where these mosques were 593 00:30:46,260 --> 00:30:42,850 situated happened to be in real life a 594 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:46,270 place where my my father when I was a 595 00:30:51,150 --> 00:30:49,330 kid had briefly had his clinical 596 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:51,160 psychology practice he was like a little 597 00:30:57,270 --> 00:30:55,330 medical building and it was just I think 598 00:30:59,130 --> 00:30:57,280 even less than a year that he had his 599 00:31:02,850 --> 00:30:59,140 practice in this building and I have one 600 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:02,860 I had one association with his time at 601 00:31:07,490 --> 00:31:05,530 that practice which was being called 602 00:31:11,450 --> 00:31:07,500 late at night 603 00:31:14,260 --> 00:31:11,460 kind of on an emergency call - to see a 604 00:31:17,930 --> 00:31:14,270 client of his who is having a suicidal 605 00:31:20,210 --> 00:31:17,940 crisis suicide break break down and and 606 00:31:22,370 --> 00:31:20,220 he even kind of inappropriately I 607 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:22,380 realize in hindsight he kind of told us 608 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:24,930 about this afterwards but this client 609 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:27,210 and I remember him describing no HIPAA 610 00:31:33,380 --> 00:31:31,410 laws then I'm sorry LC was just flat 611 00:31:35,750 --> 00:31:33,390 flagrantly violating them but he I 612 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:35,760 remember him telling us because I think 613 00:31:40,940 --> 00:31:37,650 he didn't know how to really deal with 614 00:31:44,210 --> 00:31:40,950 it but this this male plan of his was 615 00:31:47,540 --> 00:31:44,220 wearing a dress and was crying in tears 616 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:47,550 and clearly this male client I believe 617 00:31:54,530 --> 00:31:51,210 was what we would now call transgender 618 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:54,540 was you know this is in the 1970s but 619 00:31:58,660 --> 00:31:56,010 you know that term I don't think it 620 00:32:02,600 --> 00:31:58,670 existed back then but you know I think 621 00:32:05,990 --> 00:32:02,610 this this client wanted a sex change or 622 00:32:08,090 --> 00:32:06,000 something and he was but but going 623 00:32:10,430 --> 00:32:08,100 through some sort of suicidal crisis so 624 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:10,440 exciting so I had one mental association 625 00:32:15,430 --> 00:32:12,210 with this location where these mosques 626 00:32:19,370 --> 00:32:15,440 were in my dream which was a suicide 627 00:32:21,650 --> 00:32:19,380 team what we could call emasculation yes 628 00:32:24,140 --> 00:32:21,660 that I was just thinking of that word I 629 00:32:26,180 --> 00:32:24,150 knew you were gonna say precognition I 630 00:32:28,100 --> 00:32:26,190 knew you were gonna use that word maybe 631 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:28,110 because of your psychological background 632 00:32:32,090 --> 00:32:30,570 and the whole business with Freud in 633 00:32:34,670 --> 00:32:32,100 your book but I knew you were going to 634 00:32:37,550 --> 00:32:34,680 go to that well exactly and I'm I'm 635 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:37,560 steeped in in Freud I have been for many 636 00:32:42,170 --> 00:32:39,810 decades so that's you know that's sort 637 00:32:44,270 --> 00:32:42,180 of my natural my that's what the 638 00:32:45,770 --> 00:32:44,280 associations my brain makes they're not 639 00:32:47,450 --> 00:32:45,780 necessarily the associations that 640 00:32:50,630 --> 00:32:47,460 someone else's brain would make but the 641 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:50,640 point is for me I had these associations 642 00:32:57,650 --> 00:32:53,690 with emasculation yes or castration and 643 00:33:01,100 --> 00:32:57,660 suicide for the location of these 644 00:33:03,860 --> 00:33:01,110 identical gray mosques and so and they 645 00:33:06,230 --> 00:33:03,870 do exist in reality these great mosques 646 00:33:07,910 --> 00:33:06,240 no they don't they don't exist at all 647 00:33:10,610 --> 00:33:07,920 that's just that's just it they were 648 00:33:12,770 --> 00:33:10,620 they were situated in my dream where in 649 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:12,780 real life there was a medical building 650 00:33:17,420 --> 00:33:15,450 that my father had had had had his 651 00:33:19,549 --> 00:33:17,430 practice at that time but they they were 652 00:33:22,940 --> 00:33:19,559 substituted this often happens in 653 00:33:25,039 --> 00:33:22,950 in fact and this is a really handy tool 654 00:33:27,799 --> 00:33:25,049 of dream interpretation you know they 655 00:33:30,919 --> 00:33:27,809 often that dreams off and transpire and 656 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:30,929 sort of an own geography from a familiar 657 00:33:35,269 --> 00:33:32,850 geography but there are details that are 658 00:33:38,149 --> 00:33:35,279 transposed or changed and those those 659 00:33:39,590 --> 00:33:38,159 those transpositions are those changes 660 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:39,600 those are meaningful elements in the 661 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:42,570 dream yes and there was displacement 662 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:44,970 that you know this was about what 663 00:33:51,499 --> 00:33:47,850 happened on the East Coast but it was 664 00:33:53,749 --> 00:33:51,509 displaced into this other into this 665 00:33:56,419 --> 00:33:53,759 other reality that perhaps was more 666 00:33:58,970 --> 00:33:56,429 familiar to you well I think it was just 667 00:34:00,859 --> 00:33:58,980 the symbolism of it the idea of you know 668 00:34:03,759 --> 00:34:00,869 that there were you know the the salient 669 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:03,769 things that came through from that day 670 00:34:08,659 --> 00:34:06,450 you know anyone watching transfixed by 671 00:34:10,909 --> 00:34:08,669 the news to that day first of all there 672 00:34:13,339 --> 00:34:10,919 was the almost immediately there was 673 00:34:15,740 --> 00:34:13,349 chatter that that this had been 674 00:34:17,180 --> 00:34:15,750 perpetrated by Islamic terrorists that 675 00:34:19,909 --> 00:34:17,190 have been perpetrated by al Qaeda that 676 00:34:22,790 --> 00:34:19,919 was that was almost immediately the 677 00:34:25,099 --> 00:34:22,800 assumption was and and for many people 678 00:34:28,250 --> 00:34:25,109 many Americans like me this is really 679 00:34:29,720 --> 00:34:28,260 the first time we'd even been this was 680 00:34:31,849 --> 00:34:29,730 the first time that Islam was even on 681 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:31,859 our radar you know it just we just 682 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:34,290 hadn't thought about Islam and Islamic 683 00:34:38,450 --> 00:34:36,450 terrorism and things like that really 684 00:34:40,190 --> 00:34:38,460 that much until that day and for many 685 00:34:42,819 --> 00:34:40,200 Americans like me is like all of a 686 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:42,829 sudden we were very afraid of this whole 687 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:47,490 you know and so that was a very salient 688 00:34:54,079 --> 00:34:49,970 emotionally salient detail of the news 689 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:54,089 chatter that day and the obvious fact 690 00:34:58,910 --> 00:34:56,970 that these were suicide attacks yeah and 691 00:35:00,620 --> 00:34:58,920 and it was such an emasculator mean the 692 00:35:03,620 --> 00:35:00,630 immediate thing when you see those 693 00:35:05,180 --> 00:35:03,630 towers falling you know that this is 694 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:05,190 they have you know these these 695 00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:07,890 terrorists had had castrated or 696 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:11,250 emasculated our country so that's all I 697 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:13,290 would say that was you know those those 698 00:35:20,809 --> 00:35:16,530 those highly salient elements of that of 699 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:20,819 that news recording of that day sort of 700 00:35:25,700 --> 00:35:22,770 came through and and were turned in my 701 00:35:27,559 --> 00:35:25,710 own brain into that particular image and 702 00:35:29,609 --> 00:35:27,569 I think you know every every person 703 00:35:33,329 --> 00:35:29,619 would dream differently about 704 00:35:38,579 --> 00:35:33,339 about an event and we do we are planning 705 00:35:41,759 --> 00:35:38,589 at the end of our podcast to reveal some 706 00:35:48,089 --> 00:35:41,769 of the premonitions that our listeners 707 00:35:52,279 --> 00:35:48,099 had had about 9/11 at at the time and 708 00:35:54,720 --> 00:35:52,289 maybe immediately before and some 709 00:35:59,220 --> 00:35:54,730 interesting events that had happened 710 00:36:01,819 --> 00:35:59,230 directly thereafter but yeah that isn't 711 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:01,829 that is a very interesting dream and 712 00:36:09,420 --> 00:36:06,130 it's interesting that you have been so 713 00:36:12,870 --> 00:36:09,430 assiduously recording your dreams for 714 00:36:15,930 --> 00:36:12,880 such a long amount of time I fall in and 715 00:36:19,710 --> 00:36:15,940 out of it myself I I do it what do you 716 00:36:24,890 --> 00:36:19,720 attribute that some people could have 717 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:24,900 the same dreams or interlocking dreams 718 00:36:29,670 --> 00:36:27,249 one with the other people who are 719 00:36:31,859 --> 00:36:29,680 acquaintances but are perhaps you know 720 00:36:36,499 --> 00:36:31,869 not lovers not best friends whatever 721 00:36:40,859 --> 00:36:36,509 where people will dream about the same 722 00:36:49,979 --> 00:36:40,869 events that are dream events not events 723 00:36:53,069 --> 00:36:49,989 in 4d so I I wouldn't I wouldn't want to 724 00:36:54,569 --> 00:36:53,079 speculate about that I mean certainly a 725 00:36:59,099 --> 00:36:54,579 lot of people would you know think 726 00:37:01,559 --> 00:36:59,109 telepathy something like that I would my 727 00:37:03,870 --> 00:37:01,569 hunch is that people who were intimate 728 00:37:05,460 --> 00:37:03,880 or who are friends and who share their 729 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:05,470 dreams they you know you could 730 00:37:10,460 --> 00:37:08,850 potentially be Precog NIH's 731 00:37:12,539 --> 00:37:10,470 [Music] 732 00:37:14,339 --> 00:37:12,549 you know they're revealing of the dreams 733 00:37:17,819 --> 00:37:14,349 yeah so there's that possibility I 734 00:37:22,319 --> 00:37:17,829 wouldn't want to speculate more without 735 00:37:24,779 --> 00:37:22,329 a specific instance but but by and large 736 00:37:29,269 --> 00:37:24,789 you know I'm very much I do 737 00:37:33,599 --> 00:37:29,279 i I am sort of a Freudian at heart I 738 00:37:37,410 --> 00:37:33,609 figured that out problems with Freud 739 00:37:39,259 --> 00:37:37,420 there certainly are but I I do I think 740 00:37:41,460 --> 00:37:39,269 that people do you know their dream 741 00:37:43,499 --> 00:37:41,470 language is very unique and very 742 00:37:44,729 --> 00:37:43,509 personal yeah because it comes from our 743 00:37:47,069 --> 00:37:44,739 personal associations our life 744 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:47,079 associations I mean no one else you know 745 00:37:51,450 --> 00:37:48,930 is gonna dream about that particular 746 00:37:52,829 --> 00:37:51,460 location in Lakewood Colorado 747 00:37:56,430 --> 00:37:52,839 you know because no one else is dad 748 00:37:59,099 --> 00:37:56,440 who's a doctor there you know in 1976 or 749 00:38:01,319 --> 00:37:59,109 whatever it was you know it's like it's 750 00:38:04,559 --> 00:38:01,329 our own unique life experiences that 751 00:38:07,410 --> 00:38:04,569 give us our dream language well the 752 00:38:10,079 --> 00:38:07,420 place is I mean just off the top of my 753 00:38:17,249 --> 00:38:10,089 head the places where I see push back 754 00:38:21,559 --> 00:38:17,259 off on your book are probably some of 755 00:38:25,470 --> 00:38:21,569 the Freudian stuff because I think that 756 00:38:28,529 --> 00:38:25,480 it doesn't quite ring as true for women 757 00:38:34,460 --> 00:38:28,539 although I don't see it as being untrue 758 00:38:38,069 --> 00:38:34,470 like absolutely untrue on the other hand 759 00:38:39,930 --> 00:38:38,079 juxtaposing retrocausality with the 760 00:38:43,079 --> 00:38:39,940 Oedipus thing it's it's an interesting 761 00:38:45,420 --> 00:38:43,089 read but I think that to women it's not 762 00:38:48,329 --> 00:38:45,430 going to ring as true with it as it is 763 00:38:49,979 --> 00:38:48,339 to men and that's that's sort of a vague 764 00:38:51,900 --> 00:38:49,989 criticism and it's not meant to be a 765 00:38:53,460 --> 00:38:51,910 negative criticism just that that's 766 00:38:57,289 --> 00:38:53,470 somewhere where I see you getting 767 00:38:59,849 --> 00:38:57,299 pushback I also see pushback from 768 00:39:03,539 --> 00:38:59,859 parapsychologists who don't want to see 769 00:39:06,749 --> 00:39:03,549 every every parapsychological occurrence 770 00:39:09,630 --> 00:39:06,759 as being like a retro causal car 771 00:39:12,839 --> 00:39:09,640 occurrence although a lot of them can be 772 00:39:16,710 --> 00:39:12,849 seen in that light and and the third 773 00:39:20,430 --> 00:39:16,720 thing is you apparently give me the 774 00:39:22,769 --> 00:39:20,440 impression that you are a physicalist or 775 00:39:25,229 --> 00:39:22,779 a materialist in terms of your 776 00:39:28,019 --> 00:39:25,239 philosophy whereas many people in 777 00:39:31,650 --> 00:39:28,029 parapsychology are philosophical 778 00:39:35,220 --> 00:39:31,660 idealist s-- so I'm probably going in 779 00:39:42,019 --> 00:39:35,230 over the not over the head but you know 780 00:39:45,870 --> 00:39:42,029 the over the thinking immediate thinking 781 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:45,880 thoughts of our listeners with that with 782 00:39:50,210 --> 00:39:47,650 those statements but maybe you want to 783 00:39:54,690 --> 00:39:50,220 speak a little bit to the idea of 784 00:39:57,670 --> 00:39:54,700 physicalism and consciousness and how 785 00:40:00,070 --> 00:39:57,680 you feel that conscious 786 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:00,080 works with retrocausality 787 00:40:05,290 --> 00:40:03,170 and why you think that consciousness 788 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:05,300 might be an emergent property of the 789 00:40:11,710 --> 00:40:08,930 brain oh I don't I don't I don't say 790 00:40:14,230 --> 00:40:11,720 that actually I don't know yeah I I took 791 00:40:16,839 --> 00:40:14,240 away the wrong thing then well no I 792 00:40:23,530 --> 00:40:16,849 you're right that I am taking that I am 793 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:23,540 I am trying to I I wouldn't call I guess 794 00:40:28,359 --> 00:40:26,930 I would call myself I don't know if I 795 00:40:31,390 --> 00:40:28,369 would call myself a materialist I'm sort 796 00:40:34,089 --> 00:40:31,400 of I sort of try I'm trying to straddle 797 00:40:39,700 --> 00:40:34,099 two worlds with this book a little bit I 798 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:39,710 am I'm trying to address a larger 799 00:40:45,190 --> 00:40:42,050 audience I think of readers who are 800 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:45,200 going to be coming at this sort of which 801 00:40:52,270 --> 00:40:48,050 with a natural materialist or 802 00:40:58,620 --> 00:40:52,280 physicalist bent I I think most people 803 00:41:02,620 --> 00:40:58,630 who are not in parapsychology were were 804 00:41:04,630 --> 00:41:02,630 sort of on the margins of mainstream 805 00:41:07,450 --> 00:41:04,640 science you know they have they come in 806 00:41:10,260 --> 00:41:07,460 with materialist assumptions and I'm 807 00:41:14,859 --> 00:41:10,270 trying to I'm trying to speak to that 808 00:41:17,260 --> 00:41:14,869 audience by saying look there there is 809 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:17,270 no there's nothing there's no reason 810 00:41:24,270 --> 00:41:21,290 that these phenomena can't be material 811 00:41:30,220 --> 00:41:24,280 in nature I believe quantum physics is a 812 00:41:32,770 --> 00:41:30,230 materialist science I mean it's it's a 813 00:41:35,770 --> 00:41:32,780 study of matter now what matter is you 814 00:41:37,690 --> 00:41:35,780 know deep down is it is it just math is 815 00:41:38,890 --> 00:41:37,700 it just ideas you know who knows I I 816 00:41:42,010 --> 00:41:38,900 think that there are ways that you can 817 00:41:44,410 --> 00:41:42,020 link these languages oh I wouldn't agree 818 00:41:46,780 --> 00:41:44,420 and disagree with that at the same time 819 00:41:48,670 --> 00:41:46,790 I think that quantum physics from my 820 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:48,680 point of view came out of the physical 821 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:51,770 sciences in it as a way to describe the 822 00:41:58,200 --> 00:41:54,410 actions of subatomic particles but if 823 00:42:02,109 --> 00:41:58,210 you read some of the writings of of the 824 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:02,119 quantum physicists the I'm trying to 825 00:42:07,470 --> 00:42:05,210 think of an exact example but they they 826 00:42:09,700 --> 00:42:07,480 ended up many of them not being 827 00:42:14,170 --> 00:42:09,710 materialists 828 00:42:15,550 --> 00:42:14,180 um it's not that simple no I know the 829 00:42:18,099 --> 00:42:15,560 examples you're thinking of and I'm not 830 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:18,109 thinking of the names there's the famous 831 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:19,970 quotes you know you know comes back to 832 00:42:24,670 --> 00:42:22,010 consciousness so forth you know john von 833 00:42:27,510 --> 00:42:24,680 neumann is an example of someone who 834 00:42:29,349 --> 00:42:27,520 thought that that yeah it's his 835 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:29,359 interpretation that he was consciousness 836 00:42:34,750 --> 00:42:31,130 itself that collapses the wavefunction 837 00:42:38,050 --> 00:42:34,760 for instance but this was not that's not 838 00:42:39,940 --> 00:42:38,060 a mainstream view and I think you're 839 00:42:43,510 --> 00:42:39,950 saying quantum physicists you have to 840 00:42:48,070 --> 00:42:43,520 thank fun plunk I guess was the one that 841 00:42:50,980 --> 00:42:48,080 I was thinking about but I I actually go 842 00:42:55,089 --> 00:42:50,990 ahead good I'm sorry I didn't mean to 843 00:42:57,490 --> 00:42:55,099 interrupt you know I'm certainly I am 844 00:43:01,540 --> 00:42:57,500 not making any claims about about 845 00:43:04,660 --> 00:43:01,550 consciousness or its relation to to 846 00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:04,670 materiality and I think that III do 847 00:43:09,300 --> 00:43:06,410 argue in the book that we don't need to 848 00:43:13,290 --> 00:43:09,310 figure that out to understand 849 00:43:16,630 --> 00:43:13,300 precognition that that it is possible to 850 00:43:19,240 --> 00:43:16,640 to address precognition without making 851 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:19,250 any big claims about what consciousness 852 00:43:25,870 --> 00:43:22,970 is or how it relates to the physical 853 00:43:28,030 --> 00:43:25,880 world that it's it may be a little bit 854 00:43:30,820 --> 00:43:28,040 simpler than that actually between you 855 00:43:36,390 --> 00:43:30,830 and me and the wall I don't think that 856 00:43:41,740 --> 00:43:39,670 good luck figuring out consciousness and 857 00:43:43,390 --> 00:43:41,750 having some final answer to 858 00:43:45,130 --> 00:43:43,400 consciousness you know in our lifetimes 859 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:45,140 you know I just don't think I think 860 00:43:48,250 --> 00:43:46,450 these are these are ongoing 861 00:43:52,150 --> 00:43:48,260 philosophical questions that are gonna 862 00:43:54,130 --> 00:43:52,160 be troubling humans for millennia so you 863 00:43:57,010 --> 00:43:54,140 know and I I think that we can make a 864 00:43:58,990 --> 00:43:57,020 lot of progress without answering those 865 00:44:01,630 --> 00:43:59,000 questions so that's where I'm coming 866 00:44:03,910 --> 00:44:01,640 from and I didn't mean to make things 867 00:44:06,730 --> 00:44:03,920 difficult for you it just you know I 868 00:44:08,950 --> 00:44:06,740 read the book and I found myself 869 00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:08,960 rereading certain parts of it so that I 870 00:44:15,460 --> 00:44:12,250 could understand some of the the more 871 00:44:18,070 --> 00:44:15,470 physics things and I think that all our 872 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:18,080 listeners would love to read the book 873 00:44:22,650 --> 00:44:21,290 and all the examples that you have given 874 00:44:25,319 --> 00:44:22,660 from 875 00:44:28,140 --> 00:44:25,329 recent historical by recent I mean of 876 00:44:31,289 --> 00:44:28,150 the last hundred and fifty years or so 877 00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:31,299 you not too much that goes back into the 878 00:44:36,900 --> 00:44:34,210 into ancient times because we can't know 879 00:44:39,359 --> 00:44:36,910 it really in my mind what people were 880 00:44:41,509 --> 00:44:39,369 thinking exactly back then but we can 881 00:44:44,430 --> 00:44:41,519 have a really pretty good idea about 882 00:44:46,740 --> 00:44:44,440 what Freud was talking about or what 883 00:44:50,910 --> 00:44:46,750 Dunn was talking about so I think that 884 00:44:54,569 --> 00:44:50,920 your book is really a tour de force of 885 00:44:57,870 --> 00:44:54,579 of this the this precognitive quality 886 00:45:00,990 --> 00:44:57,880 and I really I I really want to thank 887 00:45:06,029 --> 00:45:01,000 you for having been on shattered reality 888 00:45:08,819 --> 00:45:06,039 today and I hope you'll come back and 889 00:45:10,319 --> 00:45:08,829 and talk with us again perhaps when when 890 00:45:13,049 --> 00:45:10,329 Kate is here as well 891 00:45:15,210 --> 00:45:13,059 I'd love to great there's so much to say 892 00:45:17,490 --> 00:45:15,220 about this it's a huge topic it is and 893 00:45:19,499 --> 00:45:17,500 and again I didn't mean to give you a 894 00:45:21,180 --> 00:45:19,509 hard time at all but I I think that this 895 00:45:24,599 --> 00:45:21,190 is where you are going to get some 896 00:45:26,249 --> 00:45:24,609 pushback and I thought that my voice was 897 00:45:28,620 --> 00:45:26,259 the Freud stuff I hope they realize you 898 00:45:30,210 --> 00:45:28,630 know I'm using the term Oedipus kind of 899 00:45:32,789 --> 00:45:30,220 tongue-in-cheek here I don't I'm not a 900 00:45:35,609 --> 00:45:32,799 big believer in the Oedipus complex but 901 00:45:37,410 --> 00:45:35,619 you know it's the afraid fright did have 902 00:45:40,829 --> 00:45:37,420 a lot of you know sort of silly ideas 903 00:45:43,230 --> 00:45:40,839 but but it's it's it's interesting when 904 00:45:45,420 --> 00:45:43,240 you when you look at him as a Precog and 905 00:45:47,730 --> 00:45:45,430 then you look at all the evidence of 906 00:45:51,930 --> 00:45:47,740 precognition and psychoanalysis well you 907 00:45:57,150 --> 00:45:51,940 got me thinking about how I what kind of 908 00:45:59,999 --> 00:45:57,160 a an exempt example just as Oedipus is 909 00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:00,009 an example for Freud what kind of an 910 00:46:06,329 --> 00:46:03,490 example I would find for women's 911 00:46:08,970 --> 00:46:06,339 sexuality and I came to think of the 912 00:46:14,009 --> 00:46:08,980 book weathering Heights and you actually 913 00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:14,019 gave me an idea for a blog post of my 914 00:46:25,079 --> 00:46:21,720 yeah they'd probably be pretty wacky and 915 00:46:29,279 --> 00:46:25,089 and not as nearly as astute as your as 916 00:46:32,099 --> 00:46:29,289 your opus they're the wonderful book why 917 00:46:34,769 --> 00:46:32,109 don't you tell us the book and where it 918 00:46:35,620 --> 00:46:34,779 can be gotten and mention it all again 919 00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:35,630 so you can 920 00:46:41,590 --> 00:46:38,570 a little boost here sure yeah the book 921 00:46:43,890 --> 00:46:41,600 is time loops subtitle is precognition 922 00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:43,900 retro cause a ssin and the unconscious 923 00:46:50,650 --> 00:46:47,930 my name is Eric Vargo that's w arg oh my 924 00:46:53,530 --> 00:46:50,660 that book can be purchased on Amazon of 925 00:46:57,610 --> 00:46:53,540 course or any online bookseller Barnes & 926 00:47:01,270 --> 00:46:57,620 Noble etc and it's from anomalous books 927 00:47:03,250 --> 00:47:01,280 an excellent publisher and also check 928 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:03,260 out my blog the nightshirt it's all one 929 00:47:09,460 --> 00:47:06,770 word the nightshirt calm and it is great 930 00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:09,470 stuff and it's stuff that I say 931 00:47:15,180 --> 00:47:13,010 absolutely works I'm a person who does 932 00:47:18,460 --> 00:47:15,190 associative remote viewing and 933 00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:18,470 retrocausality absolutely works so 934 00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:20,930 that's the best plug that I can give for 935 00:47:31,780 --> 00:47:24,530 it that it works in my life thank you so 936 00:47:36,540 --> 00:47:31,790 much Eric thank you okay so here we are 937 00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:36,550 at shattered reality it is September 938 00:47:47,260 --> 00:47:42,410 11th it's at September 11th 2018 and we 939 00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:47,270 are going to do a little bit of a review 940 00:47:57,960 --> 00:47:52,330 I had asked our listeners to send in 941 00:48:02,470 --> 00:47:57,970 experiences that they had had for their 942 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:02,480 precognition of 9/11 and it's a very 943 00:48:08,890 --> 00:48:05,690 sensitive subject our listeners had a 944 00:48:11,700 --> 00:48:08,900 number of precognitive 9/11 experiences 945 00:48:14,830 --> 00:48:11,710 to share starting with the most prosaic 946 00:48:17,260 --> 00:48:14,840 the one that just about everyone in the 947 00:48:20,170 --> 00:48:17,270 New York area can resonate with our 948 00:48:23,050 --> 00:48:20,180 listener mark who is a commercial artist 949 00:48:25,750 --> 00:48:23,060 worked with a woman whose husband 950 00:48:28,780 --> 00:48:25,760 overslept on that fateful morning and 951 00:48:31,990 --> 00:48:28,790 when his later bus was about to enter 952 00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:32,000 the tunnel it was turned back he was a 953 00:48:40,060 --> 00:48:36,890 worker at at one of the towers and over 954 00:48:44,830 --> 00:48:40,070 sleeping on that day saved his life 955 00:48:47,130 --> 00:48:44,840 so that we can't say what caused him to 956 00:48:49,599 --> 00:48:47,140 oversleep what caused him to dawdle 957 00:48:53,470 --> 00:48:49,609 going to get the bus but 958 00:48:56,470 --> 00:48:53,480 he in fact was saved in that manner and 959 00:48:59,049 --> 00:48:56,480 out like I said most everybody in the 960 00:49:03,400 --> 00:48:59,059 New York area has a story like that to 961 00:49:06,150 --> 00:49:03,410 relate now similarly a female client of 962 00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:06,160 mine played hooky from work that day 963 00:49:10,989 --> 00:49:09,170 saving her life but causing her to feel 964 00:49:15,690 --> 00:49:10,999 guilt for years to come 965 00:49:20,499 --> 00:49:15,700 knowing that many of her co-workers died 966 00:49:24,370 --> 00:49:20,509 we have a listener who has reported 967 00:49:28,390 --> 00:49:24,380 other psychic experiences in her life 968 00:49:32,229 --> 00:49:28,400 that listener is nurse Nancy who was 969 00:49:33,519 --> 00:49:32,239 working in a hospital for the criminally 970 00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:33,529 insane 971 00:49:41,170 --> 00:49:38,210 in the late 1990s one Hispanic inmate 972 00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:41,180 who was a practitioner of some of the 973 00:49:54,729 --> 00:49:49,249 darker arts some of the darker voodoo 974 00:49:57,609 --> 00:49:54,739 and santeria kind of practitioner this 975 00:50:01,420 --> 00:49:57,619 inmate she frequently conversed with 976 00:50:04,509 --> 00:50:01,430 this man and found him very interesting 977 00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:04,519 and he told her that he had stopped 978 00:50:09,460 --> 00:50:06,890 going to Manhattan stopped going to New 979 00:50:13,390 --> 00:50:09,470 York City due to what he felt were 980 00:50:16,569 --> 00:50:13,400 prophetic dreams of horror about 981 00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:16,579 Manhattan he repeatedly dreamt of planes 982 00:50:23,589 --> 00:50:20,450 buzzing perilously low overhead people 983 00:50:26,890 --> 00:50:23,599 screaming and pieces of partially burnt 984 00:50:30,130 --> 00:50:26,900 paper falling from above the dreams 985 00:50:32,829 --> 00:50:30,140 filled him with such dread he could not 986 00:50:36,039 --> 00:50:32,839 go into the city anymore now this 987 00:50:40,450 --> 00:50:36,049 happened in the late 90s so it was well 988 00:50:44,499 --> 00:50:40,460 ahead of 9/11 several years now we have 989 00:50:47,670 --> 00:50:44,509 a very nice letter from Maxine in 990 00:50:51,190 --> 00:50:47,680 Australia and Maxine wrote the following 991 00:50:53,589 --> 00:50:51,200 - here's my story I hope you find it 992 00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:53,599 interesting a couple of days prior to 993 00:50:58,660 --> 00:50:56,450 the World Trade Center attack I had a 994 00:51:00,940 --> 00:50:58,670 dream that I believe picked up on the 995 00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:00,950 event that was about to happen I wish I 996 00:51:05,020 --> 00:51:02,330 could do this in an Australian 997 00:51:07,390 --> 00:51:05,030 accent but can't it's not an accurate 998 00:51:10,690 --> 00:51:07,400 premonition but I feel that enough 999 00:51:13,240 --> 00:51:10,700 elements fit to make it interesting no 1000 00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:13,250 proof of course just my memory of the 1001 00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:16,730 experience at the time I worked in a 1002 00:51:23,860 --> 00:51:20,650 small office tower of about 12 stories 1003 00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:23,870 located in southeast Queensland in 1004 00:51:30,100 --> 00:51:26,930 Australia beside that building was 1005 00:51:33,550 --> 00:51:30,110 another one of similar size nothing like 1006 00:51:36,150 --> 00:51:33,560 the size of the WTC but similar in that 1007 00:51:38,740 --> 00:51:36,160 they were two buildings side-by-side 1008 00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:38,750 they were surrounded by much smaller 1009 00:51:43,930 --> 00:51:40,930 buildings one or two storeys in height 1010 00:51:47,380 --> 00:51:43,940 but no other taller buildings for some 1011 00:51:50,110 --> 00:51:47,390 distance in my dream I was standing on 1012 00:51:53,500 --> 00:51:50,120 the street one block away looking across 1013 00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:53,510 and up at the two buildings I then saw a 1014 00:51:57,460 --> 00:51:56,690 metal object sliced diagonally into one 1015 00:51:59,890 --> 00:51:57,470 of the buildings 1016 00:52:03,130 --> 00:51:59,900 chunking into the glass and building 1017 00:52:05,500 --> 00:52:03,140 frame the damage was positioned at about 1018 00:52:08,230 --> 00:52:05,510 halfway to two-thirds of the building 1019 00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:08,240 height there was no plane but I thought 1020 00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:10,610 that the object was attached to a long 1021 00:52:16,930 --> 00:52:13,490 extended metal arm reaching up from a 1022 00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:16,940 truck it seemed to be a concrete pumping 1023 00:52:21,700 --> 00:52:19,610 or fire fighting style truck this is 1024 00:52:24,430 --> 00:52:21,710 obviously not correct to the New York 1025 00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:24,440 event but the actual damage to the 1026 00:52:29,890 --> 00:52:27,170 building looked very similar to the 1027 00:52:32,830 --> 00:52:29,900 damage when the first plane hit the 1028 00:52:35,110 --> 00:52:32,840 World Trade Center also a truck would 1029 00:52:37,060 --> 00:52:35,120 not have been large enough to reach up 1030 00:52:39,820 --> 00:52:37,070 to the building as I saw it in my dream 1031 00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:39,830 maybe the idea of a fire truck with an 1032 00:52:45,610 --> 00:52:42,050 extended arm add some weight to the 1033 00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:45,620 story in summary I had a dream about an 1034 00:52:51,670 --> 00:52:48,890 exterior object chunking into the side 1035 00:52:54,970 --> 00:52:51,680 of a building that was one of a pair of 1036 00:52:57,220 --> 00:52:54,980 similar buildings the dream was just 1037 00:53:00,910 --> 00:52:57,230 before the World Trade Center attack as 1038 00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:00,920 I said no way an exact foreseeing of 1039 00:53:08,470 --> 00:53:04,370 what did transpire but the elements feel 1040 00:53:11,050 --> 00:53:08,480 more than coincidental also that dream 1041 00:53:13,660 --> 00:53:11,060 was very vivid and I remembered it very 1042 00:53:16,150 --> 00:53:13,670 clearly and that memory has never left 1043 00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:16,160 me even after all these 1044 00:53:22,090 --> 00:53:19,610 my geographic location on the other side 1045 00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:22,100 of the world just shows that physical 1046 00:53:28,150 --> 00:53:24,770 distance is of no consequence in these 1047 00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:28,160 manners well that's it and she says 1048 00:53:32,650 --> 00:53:30,290 she's not she didn't want to talk on the 1049 00:53:34,510 --> 00:53:32,660 air and she says she loves the podcast 1050 00:53:37,950 --> 00:53:34,520 and we love you too Maxine 1051 00:53:40,690 --> 00:53:37,960 thanks so much for that revelation I 1052 00:53:43,720 --> 00:53:40,700 think that her story is a perfect 1053 00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:43,730 example of foreseeing what was coming 1054 00:53:50,740 --> 00:53:46,850 but the mind displacing the event 1055 00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:50,750 towards the familiar similar to what 1056 00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:53,450 Eric Wargo had told us about his 1057 00:54:01,810 --> 00:53:56,890 premonition seeing those two mosques in 1058 00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:01,820 downtown Colorado Denver they're so in a 1059 00:54:08,700 --> 00:54:04,450 similar vein we have Suzanne Evans 1060 00:54:11,950 --> 00:54:08,710 Morris a PhD in speech and language 1061 00:54:13,720 --> 00:54:11,960 pathology and a very astute woman who I 1062 00:54:17,410 --> 00:54:13,730 have had the pleasure of meeting on 1063 00:54:20,050 --> 00:54:17,420 several occasions she writes thus I was 1064 00:54:23,170 --> 00:54:20,060 traveling from Wisconsin to Virginia and 1065 00:54:26,410 --> 00:54:23,180 spent the night at a hotel in Morehead 1066 00:54:30,070 --> 00:54:26,420 Kentucky the night of September 10th 1067 00:54:32,860 --> 00:54:30,080 I typically sleep very well on these 1068 00:54:35,910 --> 00:54:32,870 trips especially after a long day of 1069 00:54:39,850 --> 00:54:35,920 driving however that night I woke up 1070 00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:39,860 around 2:00 a.m. and felt very agitated 1071 00:54:46,780 --> 00:54:42,650 and unsettled I had trouble getting back 1072 00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:46,790 to sleep I woke up around 8:45 again 1073 00:54:51,970 --> 00:54:48,970 feeling anxious and somewhat agitated 1074 00:54:54,910 --> 00:54:51,980 the first thing I did was turn on the 1075 00:54:57,370 --> 00:54:54,920 television just as the second peléan hit 1076 00:55:00,850 --> 00:54:57,380 the World Trade Center this was very 1077 00:55:03,310 --> 00:55:00,860 unusual for me I rarely watch television 1078 00:55:06,580 --> 00:55:03,320 while I'm traveling I would never turn 1079 00:55:09,430 --> 00:55:06,590 it on immediately after wakening I just 1080 00:55:12,010 --> 00:55:09,440 don't want to begin my day with the 1081 00:55:15,790 --> 00:55:12,020 negativity of most of the news on 1082 00:55:18,220 --> 00:55:15,800 broadcast television however that 1083 00:55:20,740 --> 00:55:18,230 morning I didn't even think I just went 1084 00:55:22,900 --> 00:55:20,750 over and turned on the TV I know that I 1085 00:55:25,540 --> 00:55:22,910 was picking up something in our 1086 00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:25,550 vibrational universe that related to the 1087 00:55:31,700 --> 00:55:28,770 attacks of the morning of 9/11 1088 00:55:37,490 --> 00:55:31,710 these kinds of clear precognitive events 1089 00:55:40,490 --> 00:55:37,500 are not common for me and she says love 1090 00:55:44,090 --> 00:55:40,500 and peace to you Suzanne I thank her for 1091 00:55:47,930 --> 00:55:44,100 that now we have another a slightly 1092 00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:47,940 different sort of knot it's not a 1093 00:55:54,350 --> 00:55:50,850 premonition it's an observation it's a 1094 00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:54,360 psychic observation by Greg who is a 1095 00:56:00,140 --> 00:55:57,330 very intuitive man he lets us in on 1096 00:56:05,090 --> 00:56:00,150 something he perceived at a 9/11 1097 00:56:07,910 --> 00:56:05,100 memorial in 2014 I have been physically 1098 00:56:10,670 --> 00:56:07,920 to the memorial site in New York City it 1099 00:56:13,790 --> 00:56:10,680 is a powerful place and as with other 1100 00:56:16,850 --> 00:56:13,800 memorial sites such as the Vietnam Wall 1101 00:56:20,630 --> 00:56:16,860 I always get overwhelmed by the energy 1102 00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:20,640 I've also watched as survivors or family 1103 00:56:26,740 --> 00:56:24,090 or friends pull in those that they've 1104 00:56:29,359 --> 00:56:26,750 lost back to the memorial sites I 1105 00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:29,369 suspect this happens at other such 1106 00:56:35,240 --> 00:56:31,970 powerful places around the globe 1107 00:56:38,420 --> 00:56:35,250 sometime before the 13th anniversary of 1108 00:56:42,470 --> 00:56:38,430 the 9/11 event I was asked by a friend 1109 00:56:44,690 --> 00:56:42,480 to check the memorial site my friend was 1110 00:56:47,240 --> 00:56:44,700 concerned because another friend of his 1111 00:56:49,490 --> 00:56:47,250 sensed that something was going to 1112 00:56:52,010 --> 00:56:49,500 happen on the anniversary a terrorist 1113 00:56:54,950 --> 00:56:52,020 attack or other criminal event at the 1114 00:56:56,810 --> 00:56:54,960 memorial I assured my friend that I 1115 00:56:59,570 --> 00:56:56,820 didn't think anything would happen as 1116 00:57:01,940 --> 00:56:59,580 the area is heavily protected both 1117 00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:01,950 physically as well as energetically I 1118 00:57:06,530 --> 00:57:03,890 checked the site and sure enough 1119 00:57:09,140 --> 00:57:06,540 although there were whispers of a desire 1120 00:57:11,900 --> 00:57:09,150 to cause distress at the site it was too 1121 00:57:15,290 --> 00:57:11,910 protected for anything to happen on the 1122 00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:15,300 day of the 13th anniversary I decided to 1123 00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:18,570 travel astral travel and visit the site 1124 00:57:23,990 --> 00:57:21,570 as I stood in the crowd observing the 1125 00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:24,000 friends and families mourn their loved 1126 00:57:30,590 --> 00:57:27,050 ones I noticed an agitated young man 1127 00:57:33,650 --> 00:57:30,600 searching the crowd he was dressed in 1128 00:57:35,599 --> 00:57:33,660 the full New York City firemen's regalia 1129 00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:35,609 boots baggy Fire pants with the 1130 00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:38,010 fluorescent strips the jacket the fire 1131 00:57:42,289 --> 00:57:40,770 hat other gear that you see firemen wear 1132 00:57:45,289 --> 00:57:42,299 as they head into a 1133 00:57:48,380 --> 00:57:45,299 building he wave he wove through the 1134 00:57:52,189 --> 00:57:48,390 crowd looking for a woman a young woman 1135 00:57:54,829 --> 00:57:52,199 his wife or girlfriend his beloved for a 1136 00:57:57,229 --> 00:57:54,839 brief moment he caught me looking at him 1137 00:58:01,370 --> 00:57:57,239 but he wouldn't acknowledge me or my 1138 00:58:04,309 --> 00:58:01,380 offer of help I always ask how long has 1139 00:58:07,819 --> 00:58:04,319 I always asked how long someone has 1140 00:58:11,509 --> 00:58:07,829 passed before I reach out helps me to 1141 00:58:14,509 --> 00:58:11,519 know if I'll quote see a human form or 1142 00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:14,519 as most often happens pure energy form 1143 00:58:19,939 --> 00:58:16,650 especially if the person has been 1144 00:58:21,949 --> 00:58:19,949 out-of-body for some time we tend to 1145 00:58:25,939 --> 00:58:21,959 keep the human form for just a brief 1146 00:58:29,209 --> 00:58:25,949 time after passing not sure why yet 1147 00:58:32,449 --> 00:58:29,219 powerful places such as memorials often 1148 00:58:35,599 --> 00:58:32,459 pull Souls back in human form years 1149 00:58:40,089 --> 00:58:35,609 after their passing the strong physical 1150 00:58:44,959 --> 00:58:40,099 presence of the young fire man though 1151 00:58:47,989 --> 00:58:44,969 was very striking he wasn't at all as 1152 00:58:52,039 --> 00:58:47,999 transparent as others in the crowd were 1153 00:58:54,559 --> 00:58:52,049 I sensed from him that it was because he 1154 00:58:57,069 --> 00:58:54,569 wasn't yet ready to give up on his last 1155 00:58:59,539 --> 00:58:57,079 life his dreams of a loving relationship 1156 00:59:02,689 --> 00:58:59,549 with the young woman he was searching 1157 00:59:04,969 --> 00:59:02,699 for their plans for a house the children 1158 00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:04,979 they had talked about having he was 1159 00:59:10,759 --> 00:59:07,410 unwilling to end these dreams and move 1160 00:59:14,809 --> 00:59:10,769 on why I suspect he wouldn't acknowledge 1161 00:59:16,849 --> 00:59:14,819 me or some or come near me I left very 1162 00:59:20,089 --> 00:59:16,859 soon after and I haven't been back to 1163 00:59:21,949 --> 00:59:20,099 check on him I wonder after 13 years the 1164 00:59:24,919 --> 00:59:21,959 young woman had moved on with her life 1165 00:59:29,959 --> 00:59:24,929 yet for the young firemen his healing 1166 00:59:33,979 --> 00:59:29,969 would take some time I myself had had 1167 00:59:37,069 --> 00:59:33,989 some premonitions of 9/11 at that time I 1168 00:59:40,069 --> 00:59:37,079 would ordinarily take a plane to Europe 1169 00:59:41,929 --> 00:59:40,079 during the summer but I felt like there 1170 00:59:43,669 --> 00:59:41,939 was something negative in the air and I 1171 00:59:47,709 --> 00:59:43,679 didn't want to travel to Europe so 1172 00:59:51,189 --> 00:59:47,719 instead I traveled to Las Vegas and 1173 00:59:55,790 --> 00:59:51,199 unfortunately there were some disruptive 1174 00:59:57,170 --> 00:59:55,800 young Arabic looking men on the flight 1175 01:00:00,020 --> 00:59:57,180 and they gave me pause for thought 1176 01:00:03,050 --> 01:00:00,030 during that flight 1177 01:00:05,690 --> 01:00:03,060 nothing happened I'm happy to say and I 1178 01:00:08,660 --> 01:00:05,700 got off the plane in Las Vegas and 1179 01:00:13,010 --> 01:00:08,670 proceeded to have a very nice time that 1180 01:00:15,410 --> 01:00:13,020 was in August September 9th of that year 1181 01:00:17,630 --> 01:00:15,420 I went out with a friend for a birthday 1182 01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:17,640 dinner and when I came back to my 1183 01:00:23,690 --> 01:00:21,170 apartment I had a terrible nightmare 1184 01:00:25,580 --> 01:00:23,700 early in the evening and it may have 1185 01:00:28,550 --> 01:00:25,590 been occasioned by the fact that there 1186 01:00:31,310 --> 01:00:28,560 may have been helicopters flying over my 1187 01:00:34,940 --> 01:00:31,320 building but I woke up screaming and 1188 01:00:38,180 --> 01:00:34,950 said they're coming to get us 1189 01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:38,190 then on the date of September 10th on 1190 01:00:45,380 --> 01:00:41,730 Monday I recall going out into the 1191 01:00:47,660 --> 01:00:45,390 street and feeling like things were too 1192 01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:47,670 quiet the day was too perfect kids had 1193 01:00:54,050 --> 01:00:50,130 just started back to school and the day 1194 01:00:57,770 --> 01:00:54,060 was just too quiet something was up I 1195 01:01:00,860 --> 01:00:57,780 didn't know what I had no idea what but 1196 01:01:05,770 --> 01:01:00,870 I was supposed to work for the Green 1197 01:01:09,890 --> 01:01:05,780 Party candidate at a at a polling place 1198 01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:09,900 I think it was in Brooklyn that morning 1199 01:01:16,580 --> 01:01:13,890 of 9/11 and I conveniently overslept 1200 01:01:19,550 --> 01:01:16,590 which is not something that I would 1201 01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:19,560 ordinarily do I usually go to my 1202 01:01:25,670 --> 01:01:22,650 appointments in a timely manner but I 1203 01:01:27,770 --> 01:01:25,680 couldn't sleep that night and I did not 1204 01:01:29,690 --> 01:01:27,780 go to the polling place where I was 1205 01:01:36,340 --> 01:01:29,700 supposed to be representing one of the 1206 01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:36,350 Green Party candidates and so I did 1207 01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:41,250 getting getting bound up in the subways 1208 01:01:47,210 --> 01:01:44,130 and in you know left in Brooklyn or 1209 01:01:50,870 --> 01:01:47,220 possibly something worse happening to me 1210 01:01:53,090 --> 01:01:50,880 so I'm very thankful about that it's a 1211 01:01:55,190 --> 01:01:53,100 it's a very difficult day for those of 1212 01:01:57,920 --> 01:01:55,200 us here in the Greater New York area 1213 01:02:01,940 --> 01:01:57,930 because almost everybody knows someone 1214 01:02:06,550 --> 01:02:01,950 who was lost without further ado I am 1215 01:02:09,799 --> 01:02:06,560 going to say goodbye to our listeners on 1216 01:02:24,830 --> 01:02:09,809 this very solemn Memorial Day